SP Shared Power - Survey at post 418

Hey there, fellow Stall enthusiasts! Are you tired of using
the same old Cresselia
(yuckkkk) in your competitive battles?
Looking for a fresh and powerful alternative to bolster your team's Psychic-type presence?
Well, look no further because we've got the perfect solution for you:

Psyceus!
p493f78.png

Arceus-Psychic @ Mind Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Body Press
- Recover​

Now, you guys might be thinking:

"But Inoue, isn't it not worth swapping Cresselia for this false idol? I mean, you're sacrificing levitate for a +10 bulk in physical defense."

"I know you're joking, Psyceus is one of the worse Arceus types. You can't make this work."

Well, that is where you are (somewhat) utterly wrong!

For us to understand the advantages of using Psyceus over Cresselia, let us first explore the strategic advantages that Arceus-Psychic brings to the table.

Pros:

A. You cannot be tricked

Arceus is designed so that the plate he holds can never be swatted off from his item slot. This means that Psyceus will be immune to any trick shenanigans, mostly Scarf trickers, which means he can continue to click Calm Mind and gather boosts with no fear at all. The only thing stopping this would be Taunt and Encore

B. Stored Power will be a lot stronger
Arceus has a base 120 on all of his base stats, and that includes his Special Attack stat. Along with Mind Plate, which boosts Psychic attacks by 1.2x, Stored Power will deal significant damage with 1 to 2 boosts; enough for your opponent to care and be wary. This is useful as some players on Shared Power bring Haze and Phazing moves into their team. Having a strong Stored Power without the need for that many boosts will help Arceus chip down the phazers and the hazers.

C. Body Press, the bane of Special Walls
You heard that right, Arceus learns Body Press. Combine that with Stamina, which is an ability learned by Mudbray, and an ability that is staple in stall and semi-stall teams, Arceus can now land hits on whoever can block a 300bp Stored Power shot from him. Example of these mons are Blissey, and Dark Type mons. This basically means that once you are boosted up, you are essentially unwallable for the rest of the fight, except for a few exceptions.

Of course, with that in mind, there's no doubt that you have to give up a few things Cresselia has to offer. In this discussion, we'll also explore the potential consequences of incorporating Arceus-Psychic into your team.
Cons:

A. No Leftovers / Passive Healing

Since Psyceus is basically forced to hold the Mind Plate for him to retain his type, he is unable to hold any other item and thus cannot hold leftovers. You have to be mindful of this one when calculating damage. However, once Psyceus gets boosted up it wouldn't matter that much.

B. No Levitate / Useless Ability
Poison Tera is still the best type of Tera for this kind of Psyceus, as you need your Psyceus to not be poisoned at all for it to rack up insane amounts of boosts. However, since you end up having essentially a useless ability, you're not only bringing a mon that provides no ability value to your team, but you're also gonna have a difficult time dodging Earthquakes if you haven't racked up any defense boosts at all before you've Terastallized. However, you can remedy this by also bringing a Levitate / Earth Eater mon.

C. Stored Power / Body Press can be outplayed
Both Stored Power and Body Press have 16pp which means it can be outplayed in several ways. The most obvious one would be if your opponent has both a Ghost-type and a Dark-type. They can switch around those 2 mons predicting what's your next move. However, with the recent bans, only Dragapult and Annihilape are the relevant Ghost types (at least that's what I see in ladder). If they also make a single mistake they will also be potentially one-shotted, ending the suffering. You can also replace Body Press with another move, although you will have a somewhat hard time against special walls with that change.


Now, with all of those in mind, I've created this team, and I've managed to reach 1.5k MMR in Shared Power using it.

Click here for the team

1699302786222.png

This proves that Psyceus, when used correctly and wisely, will achieve results greater (debatable) than Cresselia! I'm sharing this to you because I haven't seen any posts regarding Arceus yet, and I want to start the discussion.

Our moral lesson for today would be to worship our one and true God, Psyceus
 
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Responding to post #159:

The issue is, the best special attacking Pokemon have extremely restricting movepools. Chi-Yu only really gets access to fire, dark, and psychic, which also applies to Spectrier with only ghost, dark, and psychic. Magearna needs some sort of defensive support to set up. Furthermore, the abilities for special attackers do not stack well with each other. For example, if you wanted to use Flare Boost, you would have to give up Sheer Force Life Orb.
 
just don't play stall against it? Like, an adaptability Long Reach Close Combat has a good change of OHKOing it imo.
252+ Atk Adaptability Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And then Magearna can heal a ton of its HP back using Draining Kiss. It could also Tera into Flying and completely ruin your chances of killing it.

Anyways, when playing with this team, I have noticed that the team is extremely easy to counter, and is not completely brain dead like someone above suggested. It requires a lot of pivoting, that is easily punishable, and most of the team is just not very good.
It gets shut down by Opportunist, Taunt, Etc.
Most of the time, Magearna will be switching into a Pokemon that does not have Taunt, which forces a switch while the Magearna gets off a Shift Gear/Iron Defense and then one Calm Mind, which is well enough for a sweep against other HO teams. In addition, Opportunist assumes that sometimes you are attacking Magearna with a special attacker, since Magearna can sometimes run Iron Defense Calm Mind or use Stamina. Another issue is that Espathra is simply not a good Pokemon. While Decidueye (for comparison) can easily fit as an alright utility Pokemon with Defog, Spirit Shackle, and U-Turn, as well as its Ghost-Grass typing resisting Volt Switch, Espathra has weak base stats and is simply not good enough to counter much when facing most Pokemon paired with Frosmoth.

It is also not that easy to play because it is weak to opposing setup sweepers, and Orthworm is very unreliable when it comes to getting Shed Tail off, Infiltrator exists, and position matters too much.
The only plausable Infiltrator Pokemon is Dragapult, which is completely nonexistent in this meta. Urshifu and Meowscarada have no hope of breaking through Shell Armor Stamina, and both of Magearna's weaknesses are completely removed. Sun teams are ruined by Well-Baked-Body, and Kyogre cannot penetrate through Ice Scales.
Orthworm can easily set up with Ice Scales and only has one weakness with Well-Baked-Body. It can also try to set up again with Dachsbun Wish.

There is also a lack of hazard control, and Dark types exist, which are immune to Stored Power.
Dark types cannot counter Magearna properly as they face a Draining Kiss the next move. I also do not understand how hazard setters would harm your team since you could easily go for a quick sweep on them if they try to place hazards.
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
But I am incredibly disappointed with Chien-Pao staying banned.
As I and plenty of others have already poined it out.. Fluffy is perfectly fine and even healthy in the current metagame. If you're not prepared for one of the most commonly seen abilities in the meta then that's just on you when there is plenty of counterplay against it. If anything banning Fluffy would do far more harm than it does good because it means offensive teams no longer need to run 1) non-contact moves 2) Punching Glove 3) Decidueye and can instead freely run whatever they want since nothing deters them from doing otherwise. The current landscape of physical breakers is already overwhelming for Fluffy teams as is, adding Chien Pao would just break the meta in a way similar to what Protosynthesis is doing for Sun teams. Our tiering is influenced by community input, so you can continue to voice your opinion on the matter, but the most realistic answer I can give you is get used to it and actually try to build some counterplay for it.

To start off, lets get the facts straight, magearna is a UBER-TIERED
As someone previously pointed out, this is an UBERS-BASED OM. There's a reason we have Arceus formes and stuff like Groudon and Kyogre running around. But as I just said, our tiering decisions are heavily based on community input such as your post and other ones made by users calling for action on Magearna. We're going to continue holding votes on things as long as there is community interest or concerns for certain things, so if there is continued concern or support for tiering action for Magearna then we will naturally address it.

TLDR:
The Combination Of Supreme Overlord+Chilling Neigh/Moxie Or Soul Heart/Grim Neigh Is Quite Overpowered, And At Least Supreme Overlord Should Be Banned.
There have been people calling for tiering action on Supreme Overlord ban, and that is one thing at the top of our current watchlist. We've chosen not to ban it this time around due the indirect nerfs we've given it (Extreme Speed/Basculegion bans). If the problem persists and it's still too powerful in other strategies then we will just vote on it again.

there's absolutely zero reason to ban 10 mons out of the meta which "would be unviable without sun" considering we unbanned mons like Palkia, Dialga, etc who have no functional ability of their own.
We're banning them for their interactions with Sun, which is an archetype that has strategies outside of just Protosynthesis offense. Our options were to hit Protosynthesis or Drought, and the underlying problem was always Protosynthesis giving Speed boosts to offensive mons. Banning Drought would mean that you'd be forced to run manual Sun setting if you wanted to access Protosynthesis. However this has the consequence of nerfing every other strategy that makes use of Sun while also removing a check to Rain/Kyogre teams. This feels entirely unnecessary to do when only Protosynthesis has been shown to be the problem so far. It's harsh to ban 10 mons, but I'd much rather ban 10 mons to nerf a single overpowered playstyle than ban 3 mons and kill off several other playstyles just to nerf one problematic strategy.
 
Can we all agree to ban magearna?

To start off, lets get the facts straight, magearna is a UBER-TIERED with 80/95/115/130/115/65 with a Steel/Fairy typing by far one-of if not the best defensive type only being weak to ground and fire, with a mid-good movepool (depending on the person)

You may be wondering "why ban magearna?" or "how is magearna bannable?" and answering this question is pretty easy​
1. The amount of counters to magearna teams is nearly none, you can't even make a team without questioning how it counters magearna, most of the time its gonna be another magearna team which isn't even guaranteed to actually counter other magearna teams

Proof:
[Gen 9] Shared Power replay: wrtosread vs. angl3r - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)

2. the amount of skill you put in to actually win with magearna teams is absolutely braindead. its essentially switch in whoever you want until you have every pokemon on your team but magearna that has been in the battle then switch into magearna then sweep with orthworm's substitute and perhaps you think i'm lying, if so, watch the video
Proof:
[Gen 9] Shared Power replay: wrtosread vs. angl3r - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)

Well that's really all i needed to talk about, its hard to beat and too easy to use
chat I'm famous, mag should be banned tho, unless your team has multiple counters you will not win, magearna is not healthy, for people saying opportunist beat mag this is not true. with the right play opportunist wont counter mag:
1699308111605.png

I dont have a replay of this game but i won it easily. also taunt wont counter with the use of mental herb, this will give mag a chance to use shift gear and the next turn outspeed. last;y i saws someone use a calc where mag has 0 hp, like wtf? nobody uses 0 hp mag
 
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252+ Atk Adaptability Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
And then Magearna can heal a ton of its HP back using Draining Kiss. It could also Tera into Flying and completely ruin your chances of killing it.


Most of the time, Magearna will be switching into a Pokemon that does not have Taunt, which forces a switch while the Magearna gets off a Shift Gear/Iron Defense and then one Calm Mind, which is well enough for a sweep against other HO teams. In addition, Opportunist assumes that sometimes you are attacking Magearna with a special attacker, since Magearna can sometimes run Iron Defense Calm Mind or use Stamina. Another issue is that Espathra is simply not a good Pokemon. While Decidueye (for comparison) can easily fit as an alright utility Pokemon with Defog, Spirit Shackle, and U-Turn, as well as its Ghost-Grass typing resisting Volt Switch, Espathra has weak base stats and is simply not good enough to counter much when facing most Pokemon paired with Frosmoth.


The only plausable Infiltrator Pokemon is Dragapult, which is completely nonexistent in this meta. Urshifu and Meowscarada have no hope of breaking through Shell Armor Stamina, and both of Magearna's weaknesses are completely removed. Sun teams are ruined by Well-Baked-Body, and Kyogre cannot penetrate through Ice Scales.
Orthworm can easily set up with Ice Scales and only has one weakness with Well-Baked-Body. It can also try to set up again with Dachsbun Wish.


Dark types cannot counter Magearna properly as they face a Draining Kiss the next move. I also do not understand how hazard setters would harm your team since you could easily go for a quick sweep on them if they try to place hazards.
Magearna can also invest into some bulk as well. You can take 4 EVs from speed and some from SpA and you can survive some hits while outspeeding every relevant Pokemon. 248 Timid at +2 outspeeds Neutral Nature Regieleki, and with Mag+Stored Power you don’t need every single SpA EV.
It was something like 12 HP / 52 Def / 196 SpA / 248 Spe Timid Nature with Screens and Grassy Terrain Support.
 
If you add Shell Armor you give up on another important thing, all the abilities there are important for the strategy to work.

You should be able to predict when is coming, as it needs all 5 abilities first before setting up, unlike other tiers were the Shed Tail user can come at any moment, this give you a big opportunity window to prepare, and easy way out is to just set up before they do, also you need some anti set up options in general as there are many ways to turn any mon in the game into an unstoppable in theory monster, Taunt, phasing, statuses, etc., everyone with a good team has more than one crazy wincon by virtue of the format, so either get on your wincon first or on your chosen answer.
Magearna didn’t get any petitions in the survey, we may look into it if it gets crazy with the meta changes, but at least these kinds of teams should be look at by what is enabling your sweeper, not the sweeper you chose, as almost anything can be that.
I see your viewpoint, but I disagree. Although you may have time to set up, you have to be careful. A lead houndstone could trick a choice scarf onto a pokemon, possibly crippling it. Magearna teams don't have to be limited to magearna as the only threat aswell. A bulk up or swords dance ceruledge could also be threatening or a quiver dance frosmoth. Five turns may seem like a lot to prepare but the magearna user could be running eject button, making you waste a turn U-Turning out of a mon. Not to mention, its still a pokemon with no weaknesses and basically doubled defenses. Teams trying to take down magearna have to be careful not to hit it a lot or else its unmanageable because now it has boosted defense on top of fluffy. Common counters like taunt or whirlwind can easily be played around by putting a mental herb (pretty much guarantees a shift gear and calm mind and then its stored power and draining kiss can rack up soul heart boosts to snowball out of control) or replacing your flash fire mon with a guard dog mon and leaving tera water to deal with fire weaknesses. Magearna counterplay in reality is quite limited. Opportunist isnt really a counter imo, the user needs to be able to outdamage it with and still needs some setup as well, giving mag more time to get into position. The few I can think of off the top of my head are stuff like protective pads or long reach, to ignore fluffy, but that still requires a powerful pokemon to use them and requires the opponent to do some setup of their own, I also find it optimal to run max HP magearna to make it even harder to take down. Another is possibly crit spam teams with pokemon like sniper urshifu rapid, I will admit these teams are probably the only solid magearna team counter due to sniper surging strikes breaking sub and pretty much KOing it. You could also try to outdamage it but this is unrealistic, Max HP fluffy/ice scales magearna is incredibly bulky. I just feel like magearna forces you to run some options that limits teambuilding, fitting decidueye is pretty annoying and is not the most useful vs non magearna teams.
 
If you add Shell Armor you give up on another important thing, all the abilities there are important for the strategy to work.

You should be able to predict when is coming, as it needs all 5 abilities first before setting up, unlike other tiers were the Shed Tail user can come at any moment, this give you a big opportunity window to prepare, and easy way out is to just set up before they do, also you need some anti set up options in general as there are many ways to turn any mon in the game into an unstoppable in theory monster, Taunt, phasing, statuses, etc., everyone with a good team has more than one crazy wincon by virtue of the format, so either get on your wincon first or on your chosen answer.
Magearna didn’t get any petitions in the survey, we may look into it if it gets crazy with the meta changes, but at least these kinds of teams should be look at by what is enabling your sweeper, not the sweeper you chose, as almost anything can be that.
Its not as simple as "predicting" bro, just play the metagame (weird how i have to ask or even tell a mod to do that) and see how nearly impossible it is trying to beat magearna teams
 

ponchlake

cult of personality cult leader
I just like how despite Mag teams are centralizing as all hell, they ban shit like protosynthesis
I like how we had a survey where community members who played the tier had the opportunity to voice what they felt was a problem with the tier and a considerable amount of people wanted tiering action on Protosynthesis and no one (including yourself) said anything about Magearna until after the survey had concluded and we finished voting.
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
I see your viewpoint, but I disagree. Although you may have time to set up, you have to be careful. A lead houndstone could trick a choice scarf onto a pokemon, possibly crippling it. Magearna teams don't have to be limited to magearna as the only threat aswell. A bulk up or swords dance ceruledge could also be threatening or a quiver dance frosmoth. Five turns may seem like a lot to prepare but the magearna user could be running eject button, making you waste a turn U-Turning out of a mon. Not to mention, its still a pokemon with no weaknesses and basically doubled defenses. Teams trying to take down magearna have to be careful not to hit it a lot or else its unmanageable because now it has boosted defense on top of fluffy. Common counters like taunt or whirlwind can easily be played around by putting a mental herb (pretty much guarantees a shift gear and calm mind and then its stored power and draining kiss can rack up soul heart boosts to snowball out of control) or replacing your flash fire mon with a guard dog mon and leaving tera water to deal with fire weaknesses. Magearna counterplay in reality is quite limited. Opportunist isnt really a counter imo, the user needs to be able to outdamage it with and still needs some setup as well, giving mag more time to get into position. The few I can think of off the top of my head are stuff like protective pads or long reach, to ignore fluffy, but that still requires a powerful pokemon to use them and requires the opponent to do some setup of their own, I also find it optimal to run max HP magearna to make it even harder to take down. Another is possibly crit spam teams with pokemon like sniper urshifu rapid, I will admit these teams are probably the only solid magearna team counter due to sniper surging strikes breaking sub and pretty much KOing it. You could also try to outdamage it but this is unrealistic, Max HP fluffy/ice scales magearna is incredibly bulky. I just feel like magearna forces you to run some options that limits teambuilding, fitting decidueye is pretty annoying and is not the most useful vs non magearna teams.
I think that by going over your own post you may realize why I said that Magearna isn't what should be seen as the cause of the problem, but what is enabling Magearna, and other Pokémon like Anihilape, Kyogre and Cresselia among many to become very hard to kill while they set up and sweep teams, this archetype isn't really a revelation from now, is something we have been dealing with from the beginning, they are the reason both Ice Scales and Fluffy were in the survey to begin with, Espathra was more of a key element on this kind of teams before, but it become harder to fit Opportunist on them. As the meta develops, we should be able to agree on what is the best course of action to handle this situation.
Its not as simple as "predicting" bro, just play the metagame (weird how i have to ask or even tell a mod to do that) and see how nearly impossible it is trying to beat magearna teams
I just like how despite Mag teams are centralizing as all hell, they ban shit like protosynthesis
I'm going to ask you to learn to respect others, if you want to share an opinion on the format you are welcome, but don't post one liners that are just direct insults to other users, I respect the opinion of everyone here, that's why we had a survey last week to quickly act on what the community think deserves action, the council doesn't decide to ban a mon one day because they don't like it, I take the time to listen to people and work with them to ensure we take decisions that respect what the people think is the best for the tier while being aware that making everyone happy is impossible.
Don't just go out there acting like only your point of view is right, as that's how you get people to not listen to it.
 
Seem to have gotten to top 50 fairly easily with this:
:Heatran::Frosmoth::HoundStone::Zamazenta-crowned::Wo-Chien::Mudsdale:
https://pokepast.es/cd57c96852b6a6de
I didn't do much thinking about tera types other than rock type Frosmoth to beat other Frosmoth.
Considering that the multi-hit moves are usually Normal/Rock/Dragon/Grass, Zamazenta seems to be a nice addition to be able to defend against those. The immediate Defense boost is nice for body press and what not. Protection against burns very much comes in handy. Wo-Chien helps against Kyogre's water spout.
Not sure if I'd really call it stall, b/c everything feels so offensive, but idk. Team isn't really all that interesting tbh, I'll probably try to experiment with something else. Gravity sounds cool to rack up spikes damage and avoid Fluffy, but the turn spent setting it up tends to not be worth it. I might try it out anyways.

Against Magearna, b/c it spends so much time setting up, i just try to roar it out. Sometimes trick Choice Scarf.

When it comes to unbans, I would like Prankster to be back, mostly for selfish reasons, but I just like how versatile it is. No idea how healthy or unhealthy it is.
 
When it comes to unbans, I would like Prankster to be back, mostly for selfish reasons, but I just like how versatile it is. No idea how healthy or unhealthy it is.
Prankster is very broken with Revival Blessing, hazards, and bulky set-up sweepers such as Magearna.
In particular, Revival Blessing teams can run Pawmot and Rabsca holding Leppa Berries, and have Sticky Hold, Drought, Harvest, and Prankster to indefinitely stall. Pawmot and Rabsca can simply revive a Pokemon, use Protect, and repeat.
Teams without priority moves will suffer.
 
this is an ubers metagame.




just don't play stall against it? Like, an adaptability Long Reach Close Combat has a good change of OHKOing it imo.

Also, haze

THANK YOU.
wow, very smart in terms of logic, no shit its a uber metagame, and we don't play stall against it, and the "good chance of OHKOing" doesn't make it any better that its annoying to deal with and will essentially sweep your team 99.99% of the time if you aren't as stupid as the people that think magearna is balanced in the metagame
 
I think that by going over your own post you may realize why I said that Magearna isn't what should be seen as the cause of the problem, but what is enabling Magearna, and other Pokémon like Anihilape, Kyogre and Cresselia among many to become very hard to kill while they set up and sweep teams, this archetype isn't really a revelation from now, is something we have been dealing with from the beginning, they are the reason both Ice Scales and Fluffy were in the survey to begin with, Espathra was more of a key element on this kind of teams before, but it become harder to fit Opportunist on them. As the meta develops, we should be able to agree on what is the best course of action to handle this situation.


I'm going to ask you to learn to respect others, if you want to share an opinion on the format you are welcome, but don't post one liners that are just direct insults to other users, I respect the opinion of everyone here, that's why we had a survey last week to quickly act on what the community think deserves action, the council doesn't decide to ban a mon one day because they don't like it, I take the time to listen to people and work with them to ensure we take decisions that respect what the people think is the best for the tier while being aware that making everyone happy is impossible.
Don't just go out there acting like only your point of view is right, as that's how you get people to not listen to it.
I generally don't play around people ruining my fun,
Disappointed but not surprised about FluffScales staying legal. Happy that Basculegion is gone.

But I am incredibly disappointed with Chien-Pao staying banned. It's probably the single best answer to Fluffy short of just banning the ability itself or banning Flash Fire / Well Baked Body (but if your willing to scrap 2 other fine abilities to preserve Fluffy, then you have a major problem with the meta itself and not just Fluffy).
Its because people like overpowered shit that's easy to use, but its a problem when they can't sweep someone's team with a magikarp, the reason why people want magearna banned is the same reason why skeledirge was responsible for unburden being banned in frantic fusions
 
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Byleth

Retirement
Been a while since I made a post, will just be a quick one showcasing a stall? (idk what u call these gen 9 teams anymore) team I got to 1500 after failing a lot with HO and mewtwo is not banned so have to have fun with it

https://pokepast.es/ce6e803fdacf1870

Screenshot_20231107_153231_Chrome.jpg


I've seen the calm mind press arceus shortly after making this and not sure if id use it over m2 but could maybe work, for me m2 has a niche because its naturally fast as well and provides pressure which is so so important especially when u only have 8 recovers this gen and allows you to run boots and a different tera (steel to prevent toxic and good defensive type) since you don't need to account for hazards, though you will need sticky hold support otherwise ur getting tricked 10/10. Dnite is a secondary sweeper against a lot of teams that just like to stack physically bulky mons and uses body press and the speed from dragon dance to beat most gimmicks. Only thing Ive ran into that outright was unwinnable was a crit team and maybe some other team will prove to be hard but thats it for now.

i think something in this team is potentially broken but like everything contributes so idk
 
EDIT: Here's a replay where despite my opponent packing THREE counters to my team, I still win thanks to outplaying at the end.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9sharedpower-1985702167
IMO, your opponent played terribly and could've easily swept using Body Press on Iron Bundle and then Iron Defense. They let Mudsdale tank an Ivy Cudgel instead of Heatran, used Earthquake on a very obvious switch to Ogerpon, and forgot Flash Fire existed.

As for your team, you use a mix of defensive and offensive abilities, which is rarely wanted. You use Iron Bundle, a special attacker, rather than a physical attacker to take advantage of Defiant such as Iron Valiant. Iron Valiant can also counter other Kingambits, something that your team lacks. The inclusion of Ceruledge confuses me, as you only have two Pokemon that benefit from it, and you already have two checks to fire types.
 

KaenSoul

Shared:Power Little Knight
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Community Leader
Hey fellas, we will be starting a new survey quite soon to get an idea of how people are perceiving the changes and the development of the meta, if you want something added to the survey just go ahead and say why it should be included.
:mudsdale: :frosmoth: :scizor: :greninja: :talonflame: :palafin:
With sun out of the equation, it seems like the same playstyles that were feeling quite overpowered last year are regaining popularity, and I think it would be nice if we could solve this problem before the month ends, those being bulky offense/semi stall (defensive abilities + strong set up sweepers like the Magearna teams you guys have been discussing), Psychic surge offense and the classic "lets break a priority move" (Scizor teams, Greninja teams, Talonflame teams and Palafin teams mostly, but there are others like Grassy Glide spam that are quite close to that level).
Some of those would require ability bans (like Psychic Surge and Gale Wings, again) and others the abusers, but I want to know first what people think about them.
:skeledirge: :dondozo:
I have also been thinking of the possibility of unbanning Unaware, it may look a bit extreme, but because of how the format has been developing, I think it may have a good impact on it, as more defensive teams have a very hard time trying to fit all the abilities they need, adding Unaware wouldn't directly buff them, it would help but would weaken them in other areas, specially when it comes to using stat buff themselves, as offensive teams can now go without fear of Stamina and fat set up sweepers eating all the damage. This could also allow us to open up on offensive abilities to make sure breaking power is still there, we could give another chance to Chien-Pao and even allow Tinted Lens.
:espeon: :hatterene:
Been also thinking that Magic Bounce may also be healthier now that there are ways to set hazards against it thanks to Samurott-H, Kleavor, Glimmora and Toedscruel, MB could be the kind of buff balance need to have more of a place in the tier.
Been a while since I made a post, will just be a quick one showcasing a stall? (idk what u call these gen 9 teams anymore) team I got to 1500 after failing a lot with HO and mewtwo is not banned so have to have fun with it

https://pokepast.es/ce6e803fdacf1870

View attachment 569214

I've seen the calm mind press arceus shortly after making this and not sure if id use it over m2 but could maybe work, for me m2 has a niche because its naturally fast as well and provides pressure which is so so important especially when u only have 8 recovers this gen and allows you to run boots and a different tera (steel to prevent toxic and good defensive type) since you don't need to account for hazards, though you will need sticky hold support otherwise ur getting tricked 10/10. Dnite is a secondary sweeper against a lot of teams that just like to stack physically bulky mons and uses body press and the speed from dragon dance to beat most gimmicks. Only thing Ive ran into that outright was unwinnable was a crit team and maybe some other team will prove to be hard but thats it for now.

i think something in this team is potentially broken but like everything contributes so idk
Quite convenient as this helps with the current discussion.
Stacking defensive abilities and then having 1-2 mons that can easily set up thanks to them is something that can be done without Magearna.
 
Been a while since I made a post, will just be a quick one showcasing a stall? (idk what u call these gen 9 teams anymore) team I got to 1500 after failing a lot with HO and mewtwo is not banned so have to have fun with it

https://pokepast.es/ce6e803fdacf1870

I've seen the calm mind press arceus shortly after making this and not sure if id use it over m2 but could maybe work, for me m2 has a niche because its naturally fast as well and provides pressure which is so so important especially when u only have 8 recovers this gen and allows you to run boots and a different tera (steel to prevent toxic and good defensive type) since you don't need to account for hazards, though you will need sticky hold support otherwise ur getting tricked 10/10. Dnite is a secondary sweeper against a lot of teams that just like to stack physically bulky mons and uses body press and the speed from dragon dance to beat most gimmicks. Only thing Ive ran into that outright was unwinnable was a crit team and maybe some other team will prove to be hard but thats it for now.

i think something in this team is potentially broken but like everything contributes so idk
Honestly, the most broken thing I think your team has is Multiscale. It was always terrifying to me if my Urshifu-Rapid-Strike would ever survive a pixispeed Dragonite and be able to return to KO it. Mewtwo with Pressure is an interesting idea, as it shuts down Urshifu as well as Kyogre. Also, it does not affect Recover. I personally believe Sticky Hold is unnecessary as I do not see many people running Trick, but Dipplin as a Pokemon also provides a solid defense against water types.
Very interesting team.
 
:skeledirge: :dondozo:
I have also been thinking of the possibility of unbanning Unaware, it may look a bit extreme, but because of how the format has been developing, I think it may have a good impact on it, as more defensive teams have a very hard time trying to fit all the abilities they need, adding Unaware wouldn't directly buff them, it would help but would weaken them in other areas, specially when it comes to using stat buff themselves, as offensive teams can now go without fear of Stamina and fat set up sweepers eating all the damage. This could also allow us to open up on offensive abilities to make sure breaking power is still there, we could give another chance to Chien-Pao and even allow Tinted Lens.
Well, Unaware would shut down more offensive Pokemon than defensive ones. Mudsdale is the primary defensive stat-boosting Pokemon on stall, while offensive teams have Zamazenta-C, Defiant Pokemon, Competitive (the ability) Pokemon, etc., so I personally think offensive teams would lose more value out of this change. In addition, every stat-raising move would be completely invalidated under Unaware, which would honestly be more restrictive on the meta. While you can argue that Espathra partially does this already, Opportunist is much more situational since the stats that you receive might not be relevant to your current Pokemon (+1 SpA on a Atk Pokemon or +1 Atk on a Def Pokemon), while any sort of stat raise your opponent gets that you can eliminate with Unaware is heavily useful. Because of this, Opportunist is much less restrictive than Unaware, and Unaware should stay banned.

To expand on my second point, particularly, Zamazenta-C has swept numerous games for me, using a moveset of Behemoth Bash, Body Press, Iron Defense, and Agility paired with Adaptability outspeeds nearly all relevant Pokemon that use speed-raising moves. It also provides a sort of insurance against priority moves, which was how I beat pixispeed teams with Urshifu-Rapid-Strike with tera steel.
 
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My philosophy has always been preparation in team building is just as valuable as on-the-play decision making. Allowing "silver bullets" against specific strategies is a good thing. A pokemon like Skeledirge on it's own would be great for breaking the omni-boost strategies on the ladder, but the biggest concern is stamina+unaware being a problem.

EDIT: Deleted a portion of the post because my question was answered and I don't want to promote off-topic discussion
 
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Is there any reason we don't ban specific ability being shared anymore?
You can find the original reasoning here and a brief explanation from the Gen 8 thread here. In short:
OMs should be assumed to be the actual game. What if in the actual game everything shared abilities? Preventing certain things from being shared would be modding the game. This is outside the scope of OMs and of Smogon tiering as a whole
 

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